A is for Adversity: E ~ Empowering or Not? With Kel Haney
In this episode are the usual segments: Name the Emotion, List of the Week, corresponding quotes, etc.
I also have a guest--Kel Haney--who shares great insights on empowerment, including her own story of pivoting to a different career after the pandemic. Kel coaches individuals/organizations regarding fundraising. In this episode, you'll also learn how a little bit about "taking the ick out of the ask" in fundraising.
Listen to Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-is-for-adversity/id1547037764
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Jen: Hey, I'm Jen. In life, I've learned that adversity is a stranger to no one. The way we cope is a huge indicator of our character. We want to make choices from confidence, empowerment, and trust instead of letting our circumstances control us. Let's talk about how. This is episode E, Empowering or Not. Hello!
[00:00:23] Jen: I have a guest this week. Her name is Kel Haney, but before we get to that, we will do our Name the Emotion segment. Thank you for those of you that sent in submissions this week. I really appreciate it. And if you haven't yet, don't worry. There's lots of time this whole season. Send me one at aisforadversity on Instagram.
[00:00:44] Jen: Anytime you had an emotion. So it shouldn't be too hard to think of. So the first one, this listener writes in, my baby has been teething and won't sleep at night anymore. Oh, yes. She said she's feeling frustration and exhaustion. Isn't that right? Ugh, my baby, he has had two teeth for the longest time. I think since he was six months and now he's a year and he's finally getting all the rest of them all at once.
[00:01:11] Jen: So, yes, I'm right there with you. Frustration, yes. Usually I'm good if my... Baby wakes up once a night. That's, that's fine. I can handle it. But any more than that, I start to get frustrated and resent the child, which I shouldn't because they're babies. Anyway, yeah, I could go on and on. And then exhaustion, I've talked about before how that can either be a mental thing or an emotional thing.
[00:01:37] Jen: Probably both in this case. So hang in there, mama. Okay, the next listener writes in, my son and I had a Nerf gun war in the middle of the day and she labeled the emotion as silly. Yes, we need more silly in our lives. This was a good reminder for me because I feel like a lot of times all day I'm just a no mom and kind of pessimistic and something like that would totally lighten the mood.
[00:02:02] Jen: I've heard before the challenge to have a yes day. Not too often, but every once in a while, just say yes to every request your child makes. That would be very interesting. I still need to try it, but yes, a Nerf gun war. That sounds so fun.
[00:02:19] Jen: Okay, and the last one, this listener writes in that she's feeling fear in thinking about the incoming cold weather and snow in the forecast. Upon further questioning, she said that she just really dislikes the cold, and the forecast just made her sad and scared, so I shouldn't laugh. Emotions are very serious, and I don't like the cold either, so really, this could be me. So, yes.
[00:02:45] Jen: Okay, before, one last thing before we get to the interview is, I have a few quotes for you, of course. The one that prompted this... topic, which of course I know this season is empowerment, but I wanted to have an episode about empowerment too. And so the quote that prompted it was the quote, I'm sure you've heard it. It's, if not me, who? If not now, when? And it just struck me that some people could see that as empowering, and others could see it as not empowering.
[00:03:13] Jen: I'm sure it depends on the circumstance, but dishes, for example, if not me, who's gonna do them? If not now, when are they gonna get done? So, that's probably not empowering, it's probably begrudging, or obligation, those types of emotions. But, for some things, if you don't do it, who's going to? And you could be the one that gets it done, and is the go getter, and gets all the credit, or not, you know, internal credit is good too. So, anyway, that's what prompted this episode. Kind of along those same lines, Zig Ziglar says, The same boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you're made of, not the circumstances. So I really like that because that goes right along with this season, not even the season, this whole podcast is for adversity.
[00:04:03] Jen: Are you letting your trials make you stronger, better, richer, or are they making you hardened and resentful and rigid and not fun to be around? Okay, and then the last quote, some of you need to hear this, I see you out there, it says, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. And that's by Voltaire. I myself am a reformed perfectionist.
[00:04:28] Jen: I borrowed that phrase from someone and I just really like it because it's really not that important if it's perfect. In most cases, adequate is good enough. So let go of those things that you're holding on to that are keeping you from doing whatever you're supposed to be doing. Okay, so I had a great conversation with Kel.
[00:04:49] Jen: She is just such a great conversationalist and is so good at speaking extemporaneously. And lately I've been getting tired of scripted questions. So this was totally off the cuff, except for the question that I asked about her favorite quote. But I just love her perspective on empowerment and ways that we can reach our potential. So yeah, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
[00:05:11] Jen: Well, I'm here with Kel Haney. Hello.
[00:05:15] Kel: Hi Jen.
[00:05:17] Jen: If you wouldn't mind introducing yourself to my listeners.
[00:05:20] Kel: Absolutely. So my name is Kel Haney and I am an outbound fundraising expert. What that basically means is that I work with both organizations and individuals and empower them on how to make an ask, you know, whether that is for a particular not for profit or if that I'm also interested in what does that mean for people who are trying to raise capital and just kind of really demystifying the idea of fundraising and also more specifically, I like to say that I'm taking the ick out of the ask.
[00:05:56] Jen: Yeah. I loved when you said that because it's so true. The asking is the hardest part. So I'm excited to talk about that.
[00:06:03] Jen: So you mentioned that fundraising used to be your side hustle and then kind of tell us how you got into it, doing it full time.
[00:06:10] Kel: Absolutely. Yeah. So you know, it's so interesting, the origin story of how I got into fundraising because I actually spent the 16 years in New York City pursuing a career as a theater director. So I was pounding the pavement in New York City, developing my career in theater and I needed to be doing something on the side.
[00:06:31] Kel: So, yeah, I always thought about it, you know, at that time we were calling it like a survival job or a side hustle. And so what did I start to do? I started to fundraise over the phone for my favorite theater, that I'd already worked at as an intern, and I learned really quickly. I was really good at it and I really enjoyed it because it was about building the relationships with the people on the other end of the phone, as opposed to a transaction of a donation.
[00:06:58] Kel: So I very intuitively figured out very quickly, what does that mean to be you know, thinking about the forest of the relationship instead of the tree of the particular transaction in the moment. So I learned how to do that and I raised probably around 7 million in less than a decade doing that. And it was just great cause I was the, I had these two career paths that ended up happening at the same time that I was continuing to develop my career as a director. Becoming a really skilled fundraiser, but honestly, Jen, like not talking in public about being a fundraiser that was kind of like my quote unquote dirty secret that I needed another job when most people, unless they are in a particular financial position, do need to be supplementing their income when they're in the arts, as we all know, as most of us know anyway.
[00:07:47] Kel: So yeah, it went from there to then I started to get hired to consult on particular campaigns and help other organizations build these campaigns without what I now call outbound fundraising that started with making calls on the phone. And so I started to work as a consultant and it's kind of crazy because even up to two years ago I was still pursuing my directing career while I had this now parallel career as a fundraiser.
[00:08:14] Kel: I ended up, I thought I was going to run a theater. I thought I was going to be an artistic director. And I actually was a finalist for a theater in Alaska. And so there was this moment when my husband and I could have moved to Alaska and I would have done that. And then the pandemic hit and all of the theater shut down and I did, you know, everybody's using that phrase pivot, but I did do a pivot to full time fundraising and realized that I really enjoyed it.
[00:08:40] Kel: And there was a lot that this realm of work really provided that felt really similar to what I was pursuing in my directing career. And so now I have my directing career on an indefinite pause and I am full force into this fundraising. So it's kind of crazy to be like, I pursued my dream for 16 years and then my dream shifted and I never saw that coming. And I honestly wouldn't have gotten off the treadmill if the treadmill hadn't stopped. But it stopped and it gave me some real time to, you know, have some clarity and figure out what I wanted to be, you know, the other priorities I wanted to have in my life.
[00:09:16] Jen: Yes. That's so interesting. Cause that was one of the questions I had as you were sharing your story was, would you have made that shift had the pandemic not happened?
[00:09:24] Jen: And so, you know, we talk about. Kind of the hidden blessing or the silver lining or whatever. And in your story, it's unique because not a lot of people would have something to fall back on or have something else that they had in tandem. So that's really neat that it worked out that way. Some people would see that as empowering and then other people would see that as daunting. Do you felt like that shift was seamless into the the transition or how do you, what were your thoughts at that time?
[00:09:52] Kel: Yeah. I mean, it was so odd to say this and I don't mean for this to sound callous. I mean, I was in New York city in March of 2020 and you know, we're hearing sirens all day long and it was just really such a scary moment. And I know so many people whose lives were negatively impacted. Or, you know, even taken because of the pandemic. But I started to be able to find the joy in some little things in being able to take a walk every day and see spring starting to take over New York City. And I just had never had that time and space to really look at the details my husband and I also got to be home and have dinner together every night, which was something we never did. We were in, we would go to see shows. I mean, we were at the theater sometimes six to eight times a week. He's an actor. So we were, we were together, but we weren't getting that same kind of level degree of quality time.
[00:10:47] Kel: And so I just started to find some nourishment in areas that I never expected would happen. So it actually felt kind of seamless. And again, for all of us, we were, we thought, oh, this is two weeks, or this is going to be a month, or it's going to be three months. So obviously, you know, I was never making the choice. There was never a day that I woke up and was like, this is what I'm doing instead of directing. It was like a very gradual shift over probably almost a year that started to change for me.
[00:11:18] Jen: Yeah. So what would be your advice to people who want to pursue a different career or a different path and they don't have that opportunity or are really juggling with that? What would you say?
[00:11:31] Kel: I would say, you know, first I would say identify it. For me, it's about the things I don't want to do as opposed to the things I do want to do. And sometimes it really makes me think about what does that mean to create a sculpture? And that that's actually about shipping away what's unnecessary.
[00:11:47] Kel: So to me, I would suggest starting from a place of knowing what you definitely don't want to do and how you don't want to spend your time. And I think realizing that we all have agency and that we are all making our own choices. We all only have 24 hours in the day. And so this idea of reconfiguring how we think about time and as opposed to like, I don't have the time to be like, how am I choosing to use my time? And how am I getting really specific and intentional about time and and using it from there?
[00:12:19] Kel: And I think that's really important. I think I'd also say that in terms of, so it's about time. It's about, you know, figuring out what you don't want to do, but I'd also say it's about just having a curiosity of like, what's feeling good. And like, for me, I think a lot about living in alignment and just like energetically what feels good. And I think we know, and I think going back to like my phrase of taking out of the ask, like, it's like, we all know when we intuitively don't feel good about something. And I'm like, so we don't pursue that. What is it that we're responding to in a negative way? And is that how we are in the moment? Is that the people that we're interacting with? Is it how the work is happening? Is it the time of day that it's happening? Is it that it's in the house or that it's outside the house, that it's indoors, that it's out outdoors? You know, what is, what's working and what's not. And so I think it's about getting a curiosity about ourselves and what feels good in our bodies.
[00:13:10] Jen: Yeah. I really love those questions. Those are really helpful in gearing us what to, what we want. And then speaking of time, you mentioned too, in your message to me that this was at a time where you were 40 years old. And to some people, I felt like they often think, Oh, it's too late for me. Why should I pursue this if I'm getting older? So would you speak to that for a moment?
[00:13:32] Kel: Sure. I think it's so funny. You bring up the number and bring up 40. I actually was just training a fundraiser today who was mentioning that today was her 25th birthday and that she was feeling her quarter life crisis.
[00:13:45] Kel: And so I can't help, but when I'm training someone how to fundraise to also just mentor them, if that's appropriate and applicable, given who they are. And I just thought about being 25 and then I thought of about the 15 years that have passed. And I said, you know, to this particular individual, I said, you know, you live your life from a place that's so intentional and specific. I promise you, it's just going to continue to get better because you're going to continue to get, I think it's that chipping away metaphor, right? It's like that person is going to continue to get more clear about what she does or doesn't want in her life. And I just know that cause that's. How I was at 25 and that I have a lot more clarity, so I don't think it's ever too late.
[00:14:25] Kel: I'm also my primary residence I haven't talked about this yet with you, but my husband and I are actually living on an Island in Maine and So we're splitting our time between Maine and New York City. And so back to your question about whether or not we would I'm kind of putting two things together, but whether I would have, this would have happened without the pandemic.
[00:14:45] Kel: I think I always thought this was potentially part of my larger plan of like, I'm going to go be an artistic director. And if that doesn't work out, then I will become a fundraising consultant. And I always thought I would like to, you know, be in a financial place that my husband and I could have a secondary residence on this island and then retire here someplace. I never thought that at fourty years old, this could be our primary residence. But it is, and we're back and forth, he's going to New York next week where we're back and forth whenever we would like to. So I'm really thinking about how can we think about numbers in a different way and age in a different way.
[00:15:22] Kel: And on this Island, it's very intergenerational. And there's a lot of people who are much older than 40. And because it's a small community of about 350 full time inhabitants, you make friends with people that might not necessarily have on the get go thought would be your friends. So I have friends who are in their seventies, eighties nineties. I also have friends who are six years old, who are two years old. So you know, I really am looking at age more as a construct than I ever had. And just starting to think about with more time comes more experience and more clarity on who we are as individuals. So I don't, I mean, I know it sounds cliche and we say this all the time, but I don't think it's ever too late. I think there's, there's always space for self discovery and change.
[00:16:05] Jen: That's good. And you bring up a good point too, where I think a lot of people share the mindset of either or, or I'll do this when, and so, like you said, you're just living it now and that's how it should be, you know, but our priorities should come first instead of our concerns.
[00:16:21] Kel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like actually living as human beings. And I think that is a big thing that has shifted for me with my career shift is that I really have found a way to separate my identity and honestly my self worth from my work. And I think, you know, being in such a competitive environment that was like 24/7 all I did was think about my directing career and how to continue to grow that and to be in the most competitive place in the world to do that. So much of my self worth was tied into it, in a way that like wasn't healthy for me anyway, and I'm a lot happier and have a lot less stress in my life that there is some separation now between my self worth and what I do for a living.
[00:17:04] Jen: Yeah, that's a great reminder. Good distinction there. What is one of your favorite inspirational quotes?
[00:17:10] Kel: Sure. So I thought immediately and I think this is actually from my English teacher in high school, Diane Mazar. I think she actually had up this quote, but it's a Margaret Mead quote. And Margaret Mead was an American cultural anthropologist. She was also born in the Philadelphia area as was I. So I just learned that fact recently. But this quote is. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
[00:17:38] Jen: That's very good. Very empowering because it's true. A lot of times we think we're insignificant, but really all those things add up.
[00:17:46] Kel: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:17:48] Jen: So tell me a little bit about your consulting business and how people could contact you if they're interested.
[00:17:54] Kel: That's great. Yeah, I think the best way to contact me is I actually work with a consulting firm called Donorly, and we work with small to mid-size not-for-profits.
[00:18:04] Kel: So for people who already have a not-for-profit and wanna have that kind of conversation going through Donorly's website Donorly.com is the best way to reach myself. And my colleagues and we would absolutely be happy to do a 30 minute consultation with any of your listeners who are interested in that.
[00:18:19] Kel: I'm also right now revamping my personal website, which will, which is KelHaney.Com. If you go up today, I mean, it'll be a different day, but it's, it actually still has my directing information, but that will be changing in the next couple of weeks. So also if you have some, some audience members who are particularly interested, who just want to know a little bit more about the work that I do and for themselves as individuals that don't yet have a not for profit or who are thinking about how to raise capital for themselves or their own small business, then they can contact me directly kel@kelhaney.com com. And we can also have a complimentary conversation and see where it leads us.
[00:18:58] Jen: Perfect. Thank you. That's helpful.
[00:19:01] Kel: You know, like I mentioned, you know, the fundraising work that I do really stems from this place of shifting the narrative away from a transaction to a larger relationship. So what I do is I actually work with individuals to find out what Their individual superpower is and figure out how to make the ask feel comfortable for themselves.
[00:19:22] Kel: So I don't know about your listeners, but I'm particularly into yoga. And so there's like the difference between a good stretch and a bad stretch. So I'm always looking when I'm training people, how to fundraise. That anytime they make an ask, it feels a little scary, just a tiny bit, but not too much. And so that they're shooting for the moon because once you've put out an ask, you've done it.
[00:19:44] Kel: And it's a lot harder to ask for a larger amount. Once you've put out a number than it is to ask for a smaller amount. So I really. Just kind of work with people to figure out how to be in touch with their own intuition and their own gut about what feels good to them. And to just push it a little bit and make it just a little bit of a stretch.
[00:20:01] Kel: And I think about that for the people that we're asking of as well, that I want it to feel like a little bit of a stretch but a good stretch again, as opposed to a bad stretch and that it's all about building relationships. So the way I train people is really about how to connect with that other person from a place that's curious.
[00:20:19] Kel: And empathetic and you know, being a really strong listener and figuring out what's the story you're trying to tell in terms of the communication of that conversation and really just starting there and making it really about building a relationship and trusting that once you figure out what you have in common, it'll be a lot easier to explain what's going on and why you're asking for this help in this way.
[00:20:43] Jen: That's so good. And. I love it because it really just seems true to who you are. We talked about this with pursuing our dreams and our passions that you want to pay attention to how it feels. So I love how that's all connected there. And so what types of fundraisers or how do you find the fundraisers or those charities or wherever you're raising the money for? How do you find those places?
[00:21:07] Kel: So the way that I tend to connect people who are looking for fundraising consultation tends to be with people who are already working with us, like particularly through Donorly word of mouth is a really big thing. Sometimes it's that one of our clients will mention us to another client or it'll be I, you know, we're starting to work a little bit more in the social media realm. So I'm hoping that as we're continuing to build our community and share some information online, but that's also starts to bring people to us for me specifically. Because I'm coming from a theater background and I have all of these connections in theater it's just interesting to already build on the relationships that I already had, but from a different perspective.
[00:21:50] Kel: So meeting with artistic leadership at theaters where I had directed or where I'd been in conversation about, directing, I work with this one theater called Ensemble Studio Theater in New York City, and I've been a company member a decade. My husband's a company member there. And it's so funny because I worked there as an artist for all these years and had all these impulses about what we could be doing in terms of the fundraising effort.
[00:22:12] Kel: And it's so exciting to watch that actually coming to fruition now that my energy is in this other place. And so that's really, really satisfying impulses that I already had for this organization that I really love. And, you know, that feels like it's a, a home and artistic home for me and so many other artists. It feels great to be able to help them and support them in this other way.
[00:22:33] Jen: When you were having people stretch just a little bit, do you feel like you follow that with pursuing your goals and things like that? Cause it seems like often our dreams are right outside our comfort zone.
[00:22:44] Kel: Yeah, I love that. I mean, what I do in terms of goals I, go two ways about this. There's ways in which I'm like very woo woo and intuitive and in ways that I'm very like actionable and, you know, kind of like a more masculine driven way of doing it. So I actually, have up at my desk my goals for the decade, because I've heard that we think we can accomplish a lot more than we think we can in a year.
[00:23:08] Kel: But if we think about 10 years, that that's actually becomes a lot more manageable. So at the beginning of 2020, I let myself just, daydream and like sky was the limit, like not just being like, not having to how I'm just, what are the things that are on my list? So I started there and then I broke that down to, okay, well, what am I trying to accomplish in the year?
[00:23:30] Kel: So now I have my decade goals. My year goals, my quarterly goals, and then my monthly goals. And again, because I just live in a more intuitive driven by nature place, I actually make my goals for the month based on when the new moon is. So is when I decide. So again, I just kind of like. like to play with both sides of that for myself.
[00:23:51] Kel: So for me, I think the dream is about like giving yourself the space to like, not think about how you're going to get there and to really like, stick with your intuition and just be like, how do you dream really big? And then figure out like, what are the actionable things? And just, even if it's just three to five things, small things to do in a day.
[00:24:10] Kel: Sending that email to that person that's really scaring you or, you know, deciding you're going to drink that glass of water or, you know, within time, I mean, just like really giving yourself small goals. I think Atomic Habits is a really, really good, I'm trying to remember what the author's name is. It's a really wonderful it hits names, James Clear Atomic habits, an easy and proven way to build good habits and break ones. It's a really, really good book just about like how to get started and get started in like most minute way towards the things we're after.
[00:24:45] Jen: That's great. I feel like that's one of the keys to empowerment is just starting small because it's true, things can look daunting if they're too big, but if you start small, it breaks it down. Perfect. Well, thank you. This conversation has been so insightful and empowering of itself.
[00:25:00] Kel: Oh, thanks, Jen. Thank you. It's so nice to meet you. I so appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation with me.
[00:25:06] Jen: Well, thank you. I really appreciate you as well.
[00:25:09] Jen: Last but not least is my list for the week. I bet you thought I forgot. I didn't, I just stuck it at the end because I forgot to be intentional about this this week. So you get my dinner menu because that's what's on my phone. Sunday we had burritos. Monday we had, I just wrote Asian, but it ended up being stir fry. I have a really good stir fry sauce recipe if you want it.
[00:25:44] Jen: I've been trying to buy more produce lately, so that was a good way to use up all the veggies, and I put it on Monday because I hate perishable veggies, so I just wanted to just use them right up. So Tuesday, which happens to be when I'm recording this, so tonight we had goulash, and in my family growing up, goulash was noodles, like bite sized noodles.
[00:26:06] Jen: I used elbow macaroni. And spaghetti sauce, ground beef, and corn. And I put in a tiny bit of sugar, just brown sugar, just to make it a little sweet. And I just really love it. It's kind of like spaghetti with corn mixed in and bite sized noodles, but I prefer it over spaghetti. Wednesday, tomorrow we will be having corn chowder, and I first saw this when I met my husband. It's his favorite meal, and I really, really, really love it. Should I add a few more reallys in there? Really. Because I love potato soup, and it's basically potato soup with creamed corn and bacon. How could you go wrong? Thursday, I just put breakfast, but we'll probably have pancakes and some leftover bacon from the corn chowder.
[00:26:48] Jen: And then Friday, we're having Chick fillet because I have two free chicken sandwiches that I've gotten over time from the app. So, we need to cash those in. Plus, I love Chick fillet I don't know if I told you, but my birthday party this year, when I'm turning 30, is going to be Chick fil A themed. So, you're invited.
[00:27:07] Jen: And then Saturday, we'll probably have homemade pizza. Love that.
[00:27:19] Jen: Talk to you next week! My challenge for you this week is to share this podcast with three people, at least, who you think would enjoy it or benefit from it. Thanks for doing that. That's the only way that I can grow my audience. I really appreciate you for listening and for sharing. Thank you for joining me on the podcast today.
[00:27:37] Jen: You can find me on Instagram at @aisforadversity or email me at jenbank16@gmail com. I'd love to hear from you.