The Robyn Graham Show: How to Make Asking for Money Easier with Kel Haney

Asking for money can be intimidating. But if you are a non-profit or if you are an entrepreneur who needs funding for your business, asking for money is a necessity.

Asking for money can feel icky, but if you apply these strategies you will feel more confident and you may have more positive results.

• Podcast Episode Website: https://therobyngraham.com/asking-for-money/

• Listen to Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-robyn-graham-show-success-without-social/id1491613238

What is outbound fundraising?

Outbound fundraising is looking at fundraising from inside your business out into your community.How can you take the ick out of the ask when asking for money as a business seeking investors, as a non-profit seeking a donation, or even on a sales call?

Kel is interested in helping her clients lead from a place of humanity and empathy, and doesn’t subscribe to the idea of separating professional from personal. She values getting to know people and having interactions that can help heal scars from our past. Doing so can help us move forward in a healthy way.

Taking the ick out of asking for money is very personal.

It is important to recognize scenarios or situations in which you felt icky – either the way someone asked you for something or when you had to ask for something. Looking at things from the individual perspective is a great way to start. We all have different emotions and responses to experiences. However, money mindset challenges are common when asking for money.

How can you fund your business?

Are there generalizations that apply when people are asking for money to fund their business or for donations?

There is always a need for financial support when starting a business or if you are a non-profit. Strategies that you can implement to overcome generalizations about asking for money include?

1. To always be closing is icky. It shows you are just trying to get to the person’s wallet versus getting to know the person. Instead, start a conversation to get to know the human being. Relating to each other as individuals shows genuine interest and will help with building relationships. Relationships go further than asking for money. Find a commonality between yourself and the person you are asking.

2. Be the host of the conversation. Always be the person who is in control. What is the ARC of conversation, and how is it going to look and go?

3. When asking for money it is important to be personal and candid and know what is a comfortable ask. As you get to know the person you are speaking to, set the amount that you want to ask for. Set this amount before you begin the conversation, but allow it to change as you do research during the conversation.

4. The ask strategy and what to say “It would be really great if we could count on you for this amount”, then give them a moment to think about it.

5. Separate what the amount of money means to you versus what it might mean to someone else. It is all scalable. Truly if you separate yourself from the meaning of the amount you can ask for any amount. Find the comfort to ask and you will be able to ask for any amount.

6. Blue Jeans Theory – no matter what you know about people, you never really know what their relationship with money is. It’s hard enough to figure this out for ourselves. Someone who makes $30K a year may invest $300 in a pair of jeans while someone else who makes $ 300K per year won’t invest more than $30 in a pair of jeans. Therefore, it’s impossible to figure out what someone’s perspective on money is. Instead, ask “what do you think”.

7. Don’t ask for a yes or no. Really make space for a gray area and keep it light. Say things like “I’m going to shoot for the moon and see if you can do this much.” “I was thinking, could you give this amount, what is your initial instinct about that?” See if these open a deeper conversation.

Additional tips for taking the ick out of asking for money when fundraising as a non-profit or seeking investors

Start from a place of curiosity. It will help you relax more and prevent you from going into a place of judgment. Getting curious will also help build trust. Trust determines buying practices so it is important to build it.

Likewise, getting personal is a great way to help you relax and let your guard down as well. When you come from a place of passion, you can really tap into a positive energy source that will help navigate you to a yes, people will want to support you when they feel your passion.

Kel encourages vulnerability during conversations that involve asking for money because it demonstrates strength as opposed to appearing vulnerable and I need your support and I’m pulling on your heartstrings.

Instead of thinking always be closing, think always be candid.

In a world where there are many scams related to asking for money, being candid can help disarm people. Honesty is key. People can sense your honesty and integrity with your ask. Share that asking for money is the least favorite part of your job but that you are excited to connect. Share your emotions and feelings as a way to connect.

These suggestions will help with so many aspects of your business including sales calls.

The more human we are the more genuine we seem and the more likely we are to convert people. When you are genuinely yourself, they will see you as someone they want to support and be with. Think about the other person also having these what-if or anxious thoughts as well so if you let your guard down, you will help them let theirs down also.

How can you cater the ask to the person whether fundraising for a non-profit or seeking investors for your business?

Use their name. Try to strengthen the relationship and they will invest in you. It may take a bit of time, or they may not have the resources themselves but they may be able to connect you to others who do.

If you don’t ask, the answer is an automatic no.

When you have negative thoughts, your feelings are going to be of doubt, and you will lack confidence and you will not ask. If you flip the switch on the thoughts in your head, you will have more confidence and take more action, and more results. One step of action will lead to more motivation, more progress, and more momentum. This is working with an abundance mentality. If you are in a place of lack, take a break, get fresh air, and change your perspective.

Donors give and investors invest. Use this perspective when going into an ask.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Robyn: Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of the Robyn Graham show. I am so happy and grateful that you are here with me today. We are going to have a unique conversation today. We're going to bounce around in two different realms. So we're going to talk about life in general and how sometimes we're trucking along and then all of a sudden there is just a brick wall and we have to pivot.

[00:00:21] Robyn: We have to make a change and how you can do that with a positive mindset, but then how you can actually reset so that you can have the resources financially to create a new life, a new career, so that you're not living in that place of uncertainty for too long of a period of time. So it's going to be a very interesting conversation.

[00:00:44] Robyn: And I hope you guys will stick around and stay till the end, because I think you're very inspired and very enlightened. Without further ado, I'm going to bring the guest on today and let's dive into this incredible conversation. So Kel Haney, welcome to the Robyn Graham show. 

[00:01:02] Kel: Thanks for having me, Robyn. I'm so glad to be here. 

[00:01:05] Robyn: I'm happy to have you. And I just learned that you're from the, basically the same geographical area that I am originally. So that's cool. It's a small world. 

[00:01:16] Kel: Absolutely. It's so wild. Yeah. How we connect in all the ways and actually being from the same place is so funny and synchronistic, I think.

[00:01:24] Robyn: Yeah, it's funny. Okay. And I have to say listeners, you'll have to check out the video on YouTube because she's got the most beautiful smile. Just had to throw that in there. 

[00:01:32] Kel: That's very sweet. Thank you. 

[00:01:34] Robyn: All right, Kel. Let's jump in here. So let's start by you telling the listeners a little bit about you because you had an interesting, very, I think, what sounds like a very exciting career in New York city as a theater director.

[00:01:46] Robyn: And then all of a sudden you hit a brick wall and now you are doing something completely and totally different. I'm going to have you tell the listeners a little bit about your journey, and then we'll dive into our conversation and get into the meat of things.

[00:01:59] Kel: Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. I spent 16 years pounding the pavement as a theater director in New York city.

[00:02:06] Kel: I was specifically passionate about new work, new American plays and the development of new American plays and musicals. And I made a great time living in New York. That's where I met my husband, who's an actor, Michael Grew and also most of my best friends. 

[00:02:22] Kel: And when people would ask me, what's it like living in New York and what's it like living as a theater director, I always said, this is so much harder than I ever could imagine, even though in school, all of the professors, everyone visiting would always say, this is so hard. If you can imagine yourself doing anything else, you should. And I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else. So of course I kept moving forward. 

[00:02:43] Kel: So it was much more challenging than I ever could anticipate. But it was also so much more rewarding than I ever imagined. And I just met the most amazing people who were so warm and empathetic and a little scrappy and just willing to do whatever they needed to do to continue to make their work.

[00:03:02] Kel: And I loved the community. My mom would come visit from Westchester, Pennsylvania, and we'd get on the subway and just going from our apartment in Astoria, which is 25 minutes into Midtown, into Times Square, she would go for me from point A, my apartment to point B, like in Midtown. And I'd run into so many people that I knew it was like two or three people every single time I was commuting.

[00:03:27] Kel: And she's like, how do you know more people walking through New York city than I do going to the grocery store? So I loved my community very much. And I loved the work and I would learn about different topics I knew nothing about. I was the associate director on bit on boy with Cynthia Nixon. So I learned all about John Dunn's poetry and also it was just a very fascinating time.

[00:03:49] Kel: Yeah. So life changed two ish years ago, the shutdown happened and I needed to figure something else out. Suddenly theater wasn't happening. I had on the side, what I referred to as a survival job, as a fundraiser for, I love talking about theater. So it was a really natural parallel career to start developing, but I always thought that my fundraising was going to be always in service of my directing.

[00:04:15] Kel: And so in fall of 2019, I actually was up for an artistic director job in Alaska of all places. So my husband and I were thinking about moving to Alaska. If I got that job, they ended up hiring their interim artistic director. So I think that worked out well for everybody, but I always thought that this fundraising was going to filter into this larger dream.

[00:04:35] Kel: So when everything stopped and I needed to figure something else out, I started to fundraise full time and go figure, Robyn and this idea of second chapters and this idea of shifting what happens in our careers. I suddenly found myself as a full time entrepreneur in a way that I hadn't anticipated. And I realized that I, for my whole career as a, as an adult, as a director in theater, as much as I loved it.

[00:05:03] Kel: And as much as I thought back to the six year old version, who would love what I was doing, I wasn't living my life as fully as I wanted to, because I was like making all of my life decisions to support my career. And so suddenly I was in a situation where I could rethink all of that. So I started to make life decisions.

[00:05:21] Kel: That were about my life. And so then it became that my career was actually to support my life instead of vice versa. And that's been a real change. So I used to make all of my decisions. I lived in New York city. I was just scraping by with an income of my theater directing and my supplemental income job, scraping by paying for my own health insurance, like figuring out how to just continue trying to get to this little island I loved in Maine for a couple of weeks a year and that was like my time off in my heaven. Now, believe it or not, my husband and I live on this little Island off the coast to Portland. My work is predominantly remote. All of his auditions, the first ones are remote. So suddenly instead of being in a 400 square foot apartment, we're in a four bedroom house and we have a rescue dog named Ella Bucklew when I'm not working and I'm not helping people coaching people on how to raise funds, I get to be out on the beach. I get to be in the woods. I get to have all of our loved ones come visit us, host them, have a full kitchen in order to actually make meals and host people.

[00:06:27] Kel: I used to feel like I put all of my resources and how to make theatrical events. And now my resources are about creating events in my own life. And so my creativity is being fueled in a whole way that I never anticipated that it would. So it's been a real mindset shift in addition to like my whole life being different than it was two and a half years ago.

[00:06:49] Robyn: I love that so much. And I love how you transitioned from living your career to having a career just to support your life. There's such a dramatic difference in that. And I would imagine it's almost like experiencing a loss and having to grieve when one, one section or one chapter of your life closes, but another door has opened and so have new opportunities.

[00:07:18] Robyn: And I think for entrepreneurs, most of us have started someplace in the corporate world or doing what we went to college for, or starting out doing something, maybe a trade or using a skill or something that we have. And then when we transitioned into this world of entrepreneurship, it is a totally different mindset.

[00:07:40] Robyn: And we really do have to wrap our head around so many more things than just the work we're doing. There's so many behind the scenes things, and you're in a silo. So many times you're alone and working alone and doing things alone, and you don't have someone to hold you accountable. So there's so many aspects that we have to push through, at least in the beginning. 

[00:08:02] Robyn: When we're talking about doing this and transitioning from having something where maybe we're not making a ton of money, but we still have a sense of security. We still have money coming in. We have benefits. We have security. I don't know of another word that really truly describes that, but when we shift, we lose that security.

[00:08:23] Robyn: And there's a lot of I think doubt there's a lot of questions, there's insecurities, there's comparison, there's all these things going through the mind. And one of those things I think is that is forefront for entrepreneurs is money. We've had people on to talk about money mindset. We've had people on to talk about how to get funding in terms of what you need to do to build out that business plan to present or pitch to a bank or investors or friends, family, whatever.

[00:08:55] Robyn: We've never really talked about the, I guess, mindset around, or the understanding of the emotional concepts around getting funding and doing fundraising. And you and I had this conversation earlier about when you originally pitched me, I was like fundraising. Okay. She's talking about nonprofits, but I just could not wrap my head around what you were talking about when you were talking about fundraising.

[00:09:19] Robyn: Cause for me, fundraising is always, I always think of it as nonprofit or the kids sports team selling candy bars or whatever the case may be. But I love how you're referring to this as outbound fundraising and that is outbound meaning from the entrepreneur outbound to their community. And it doesn't have to be angel investors.

[00:09:44] Robyn: It doesn't have to be banks. It doesn't have to be big corporations, but okay I guess I've rambled, but what I'd really like for you to focus on now, if you don't mind, since we now know your story and how you've done this for yourself, how can we take that ick out of the ask your phrase, not mine to fund our businesses?

[00:10:05] Kel: Sure. Yeah. Before I get into that, I just want to also acknowledge what you were saying about the grieving process. I know that's something that you talk about a lot on this podcast and about therapy and mental health. And I just want to say, while we're just segueing into talking about taking the out of the ask that for me, like therapy is very integral part of my life and something that is probably one at the forefront of my priorities and my life in a larger sense of self actualization and how to be on that journey. 

[00:10:36] Kel: So I will say that I'm definitely still working through a grieving process in terms of letting go of the life I had and the career I had, and definitely still very much part of my presence. But I also think what you're saying about a lot of your listeners and coming from the corporate world. And I think, wherever we're coming from, we've all had difficult experiences that have scarred us in some ways and give us triggers. And I'm really interested in moving forward from a place where we lead from a place of humanity and a place of empathy.

[00:11:08] Kel: And that I really, everyone I work with, I'm not, I don't subscribe to this old idea of what's professional versus what's personal. Like, I want to get to know people as human beings. And I hope that all of the interactions we can have, whether they're personal or their business can really be about helping us heal those wounds that we've had because so much.

[00:11:29] Kel: I know you talk about all the time and talk about in your own work is like what is our own narrative, what's our own pasts, and how does that affect where we are now and if we can acknowledge that and share that, we can move forward in a much healthier way and a way that is also more productive and good on always, that does really like circle back to this idea of taking the ick out of the ask.

[00:11:51] Kel: So I'm in the early stages of writing a book and the working title is taking the ick out of the ask. And I like use that phrase all the time of why does something feel icky? And what that really gets down to is for each of us as individuals and, what feels personal and I'm coming from a place that I spent, I have my Malcolm Gladwell, 10, 000 hours fundraising, asking for money over the phone.

[00:12:15] Kel: And that was just happenstance. I was doing what was my favorite thing. I was talking about my favorite thing and was able to connect with people in that way. So I have lots of tips I can offer. And I want to be clear. I'm coming from a place of, for those of you who aren't watching, I'm white. I'm also CIS gendered and heterosexual. And I'm very aware that my whole life I was rewarded for asking for things. And like, I'm coming to this conversation from a particular place of privilege. And I just want to acknowledge that. And I'm trying to break down what else I can offer that equals the playing field for everybody.

[00:12:50] Kel: So when I think about taking the ick out of the ask, I just want to be clear that I think that's very personal to each of us. So if I'm in a coaching session, or if I'm in a coaching session with one person, or if I'm with a group, I like to start with asking like, when is a moment that has felt like either icky to you in terms of someone asking, or you having to ask and whether that's in sales or that's in terms of donation to me, those are, can be interchangeable in terms of how we look at what that transaction can be.

[00:13:20] Kel: I'm curious about moments that feel icky or that it feel icky either to be the person who's asking or the person who's being asked, because I find that our own personal interactions really affect how we work. I'm also a senior consultant at a firm called Donorly, which focuses primarily on not for profits.

[00:13:40] Kel: So that's a different conversation, but the president, Sandra Davis always says that we're all a focus group of one. And so I think that's an important thing to keep in mind. So you may say to me, Robyn, you may say, Oh, I just feel really uncomfortable when people call me on the phone. And so I would talk to you about that a little bit more and find out why that is or I'm really uncomfortable when the conversation ends up being about money, break that down with everybody as an individual, because what makes you feel uncomfortable or me uncomfortable is different than each of your individual listeners. And I think that's for us to acknowledge, not to assume, that everybody else has the same comfort or discomfort level that we have. So I think that's a good, that's a good place to start. 

[00:14:24] Robyn: Yeah. And I think that, looking at things from an individual perspective is always a great way to look at life in general, but also a great place to start. Remembering that not everyone is going to have the same emotions or feelings because we, none of us are wired the exact same way.

[00:14:42] Robyn: Do you think there are similarities? Especially when it comes to mindset struggles and the things that we experience as entrepreneurs and being so alone so often, and now, especially with technology, even having those conversations sometimes can be very intimidating because we're not used to doing it as often as we used to be.

[00:15:05] Robyn: We're not just meeting someone and shaking hands and you automatically have a personal connection. So much of everything now is through screen time or over the phone. And I think when you don't have eye contact, it is harder to build relationships and build trust. Yes, we have eye contact through a screen, but it's not the same.

[00:15:23] Robyn: I, you don't have the same exact energy. You don't have the same flow. You don't have that same human connection through a screen as you would, or by a phone, as you would in person. So I think that is definitely all of those individualistic perspectives are very important to recognize. 

[00:15:43] Robyn: When we talk about that, though, are there some generalizations that you can make based on your work when people need to ask for funding and maybe they don't. And maybe we should break this down need versus want. But either way, if you are, starting a business, starting a project. If you are a nonprofit, no matter what sector you're in, there is a need for finances. So if you have that desire and need to ask for support financially, are there some generalizations that we can apply the cause people to hesitate or mindset locks around asking, is there a certain fear that people have that you've seen repetitively?

[00:16:28] Robyn: Can we talk about those things? Because I think if we can start there and then come from that place of generalization. Each individual listener can then address each one that applies for them. And then we can jump into, okay, so for this person that has this fear, here's how we've navigated that.

[00:16:45] Kel: Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. I have a bunch of those. We can hop in and see which ones are working for you. So I think one to keep in mind is not commenting on cost. This is something I did very intuitively was I would talk to people and I was so passionate, for me, it was about theater. So talking to people who had also seen a play at this theater and we would start that place from a conversation of what did you think of the show?

[00:17:10] Kel: So I think one thing to start with is I really try to separate myself and do the opposite of kind of that cold call boiler room. Always be closing like very like masculine energy. I like see the meme of Alec Baldwin and Glen, Gary, Glen Ross, like yelling, always be closing and coffee is for closers. I think always be closing is so icky.

[00:17:33] Kel: Like it's so transactional. It's so obvious. People know when you're just trying to get to their wallet as opposed to connect with them. So I encourage obviously like we would do in person, doing as much homework as we can on just learning about that other person and finding what do you have in common and starting a conversation from a place of just getting to know that human being.

[00:17:57] Kel: You can have, specific questions about, I so appreciate you having this conversation. For instance, if it's a intro from someone else, you can talk about the person who introduced you. I'm so excited that you're interested in hearing about this program that I'm starting for nurses or whatever it is. That was what I talked to somebody about yesterday and to just start the conversation from a place that's truly curious about the other person, because a, you're going to get more comfortable with each other, if you're just relating to each other as individuals and that person can see, Hey, this isn't someone who's just trying to quote unquote, close the deal with me, this is someone who is genuinely interested, you're going to learn a lot about this person in terms of how are you going to, I'm very into qualitative data.

[00:18:42] Kel: So that's like data that we're finding that we wouldn't know from anything other than conversation. So you might learn how close they are to their family. I like to think, I don't know if you and your readers have read Keith for Ozzie's never eat alone, but I think it's the best networking book I've ever read.

[00:18:56] Kel: And he says, everybody wants to talk about their family, and health. So find whether it's family or health or it's something else. Find what's your commonality with that person. Let's just relate to each other as human beings, first and foremost. 

[00:19:09] Kel: I also talk a lot about being the person who's always hosting the conversation. So like similar, like you do running your podcasts or your listeners who run their own podcasts or who have people over for dinner. You're hosting the event of this conversation. So you want to always be the person who's in control. Who's always what's the arc of what this conversation is going to look like.

[00:19:28] Kel: So I think it really is starting from a place of let's connect as human beings. Let's lead from a place that's genuinely curious because that's going to affect how the rest of the conversation goes. So I think that's a really good point. 

[00:19:40] Kel: I think another good point. Is that this, I said this already, but I didn't go into it, but it's this idea of like never commenting on cost. So what I would always do when I was fundraising over the phone, raising capital over the phone, however you want to look at it is I was so personal and candid in every part of the conversation, other than the actual monetary ask. 

[00:20:03] Kel: I, going into the conversation had done the research had decided by what I already knew about this person and how much money I was looking to raise in the larger sense, like what felt like a comfortable ask for me. I love yoga. And so for those of your listeners who are yogis, I'm always looking for what feels like a good stretch for the fundraiser asking. And also our best kind of intuitive guests are research based guests. Of what feels like the right kind of good stretch for the person with whom you're speaking, I set that amount before I get on the phone, or have a conversation in person or via zoom before that conversation starts and obviously we can learn things about that person we didn't know. 

[00:20:41] Kel: We can, they can say something that makes us think oh they may actually have, some more resources than I anticipated at the last minute, I'm going to ask for more or the person share something personal, a health issue or a divorce or something going on in their life that makes you feel like a little, okay, I don't want to ask for that much that can change within that qualitative research part of the conversation.

[00:21:05] Kel: But I really reached to know what that number is, and just basically ask for it is to basically say, so it would be really great if we could count on you for X amount. And then what I like to do is hold for the silence, give them some time to think about it. If you're in person, and you're having coffee, take a sip of your coffee. You're having a meal. Go ahead. Take a bite of your hamburger, a bite of your salad, whatever that is. Take a moment and let them think about it. 

[00:21:35] Kel: So if you've been guiding this whole conversation, give them that moment to see what they say, number one. And when it comes down to that amount, if you can, and this is so much easier said than done. And this is what goes down to all of us working on our own thoughts about our own finances and our own history and our own thoughts about money. But if we can seriously separate what that amount of money means to us, even if it's our own business, but if we can truly find a way to emotionally separate and just ask for the amount, we can ask for any amount of money. Do you know what I mean?

[00:22:07] Kel: Then it doesn't matter if you're asking for 25, 250, 2. 5 K, 25 K,250 K. It doesn't matter. It's all scalable. And so I think that's a really big thing to keep in mind. If you can learn how to do this and learn how to find that comfort in yourself to ask, you can ask for any amount of money. It's it's truly is scalable. 

[00:22:30] Kel: So the other thing I think about, and I call this my blue jeans theory, no matter what we know about people, we don't always know, we're never going to know how they relate to money. We're all just trying to break down how we relate to money and try to work through that. You're trying to figure that out about somebody else, like best of luck to you. I would not even encourage you to try. And so one example I give of how we don't know how people relate to money is there is someone out there who makes 30, 000 a year, who thinks nvesting, 300 in a pair of jeans to purchase a pair of jeans is like a sound investment is like their priority.

[00:23:07] Kel: There's someone else out there who makes 300, 000 a year who would never in a million years, pay more than 30 for a pair of jeans. So we can't figure out what somebody else's perspective is on money. So I don't even try. I just really encourage you to figure out like, this is the amount. What do you think?

[00:23:27] Kel: And the other thing I would suggest is not asking for a yes or no. This is when people are learning to fundraise or raise capital. It's very easy for us to feel, okay, I got all the way through my pitch. So is it a yes or is it a no? And I say, really make space for a gray area and keep it light. I like to say phrases like, I'm going to shoot for the moon and see if you can do this much.

[00:23:50] Kel: Or I was thinking, could you potentially do X? How's that sound? Like what's your initial instinct about that? So to see if it opens up a larger conversation. So I really do what I can to like, stay away from a specific yes or no. Particularly when I roll out the ask for the first time. It might become, a more nuanced conversation as you go. And as you're talking, you can say, listen, this resource would be really great right now, or this week, or this month, or this year for these particular reasons, but I really encourage to start from a place of just how's it sound so, so far, keep it as a conversation, keep it as a two way street, see what they're thinking.

[00:24:30] Robyn: This is so good. And I think that this can be applied on in so many levels, like even during a sales call. Really? I have so much potential here. And I love the most of what you say about start from a place of curiosity. I think when we come from a place of curiosity, we tend to relax more. We don't fear judgment from someone else and we don't let ourselves go into a place of judgment.

[00:24:59] Robyn: I talk about curiosity in my book and I think curiosity is such a beautiful thing for solving a problem. I think when we are curious and we can be curious about someone else and invite them to be curious about us. We open the door for communication and we know that communication is going to build a relationship.

[00:25:19] Robyn: Relationships are how we form trust and without trust, no one is going to support us, buy from us or give to us. And so it's really important to start from that place. And then I like how you talked about being personal and candid upfront. I think that's a great way to let your guard down. I think it's a great way to share something about yourself.

[00:25:46] Robyn: Maybe even getting a tiny bit vulnerable, but yet not from an extreme perspective. But when you share something, when you come from that place of passion and you're coming from your experience with the theater, you were passionate about the work you were doing. So you were automatically passionate about this fundraising.

[00:26:06] Robyn: And I think when we come from that place of passion, you can really tap into an energy source that is gonna help navigate to a yes versus an immediate no. I think when people see how passionate you are, that energy is going to come through and you're going to trigger something positive in them, they're going to want to support you.

[00:26:27] Kel: Yeah. 

[00:26:28] Robyn: Love that you said that. And I'm just, I took so many notes. I'm like, 

[00:26:32] Kel: What you were just saying was so great. When I was seeing myself as opposed to coaching people, I would hear all the time, tell your energy is infectious. That I was truly inspiring other people. And that's a good place to start. 

[00:26:46] Kel: And what you were just saying, I really do encourage vulnerability. And I think it's about vulnerability coming from a place that's strength of saying I'm strong and I'm confident enough to be vulnerable, as opposed to I'm vulnerable in a way that I'm asking you to take care of me or to do something from a place that. I'm trying to pull on your heartstrings or anything like that.

[00:27:07] Kel: I think there's a real strength in that vulnerability when that vulnerability is grounded and is deliberately. We're deliberately being vulnerable. I like to say, instead of ABC always be closing, I like to say always be candid. And I think just the more we can be as honest as possible, we live in a world that's so much about a spin or about a scam, and I find that people can be disarmed with us, just being honest with them.

[00:27:33] Kel: And we can feel that we know the difference of somebody being authentic and being truthful. And part of that is being honest about our given circumstances. So I also encourage your listeners to, if they're feeling a little vulnerable, if they're feeling a little nervous, if they're feeling, oh, this is the part of my job, that's my least favorite part, but I'm so excited to connect with you.

[00:27:53] Kel: Share that I find so many times people come to me, my clients expressed to me, Oh, I was nervous, or I just felt like I was having a bad day. And I say, why not just share that within that conversation is what I really want to encourage is that if we can just say, here's where I am today. Obviously it's, we're all just going through every day feels different. And if we can share that, I think it's a good place to start. 

[00:28:20] Kel: And it's just not how most people go about their lives and their interactions with people they don't know or interactions around money. So I really encourage that. 

[00:28:29] Robyn: Yeah, I like that. And I think it's really important across the board for us to share those things like the more human we are, the more genuine we, seem, and the more we're going to be able to convert people to either donors or supporters or purchasers. And I think it's, I just, I love that. I love that you said that. And I think it is so incredibly important and it doesn't, when you are genuinely yourself and you are showing your passions and you are being vulnerable and you're expressing that nervousness, people are going to see you as someone they want to support and care for and be with.

[00:29:09] Robyn: You're not intimidating when you're in that state. I think a lot of times when we are making an ask, we do seem almost intimidating or maybe not us, but people almost seem intimidating. And it's the person that's on the other end. You have to put yourself in their shoes too, because they're thinking, what are they asking for? Can I provide what they're asking for? If you have any nerves or anxiety over what you're talking about, they probably have those on the flipside of that as well. So it's important to be open minded to the fact that, okay, if you're feeling this way, let your guard down, share that because chances are you're going to open the door for them to then let their shoulders drop from their ears and relax and be more in tune to the conversation instead of having those, what if thoughts rolling in the back of their head.

[00:29:56] Kel: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I also think that presumably we're asking for things that we are passionate about, like you said a little bit earlier in the conversation and to just lead from that place of our own passion and the clients that I coach, I'm always urging them to like, how can they cater this ask specifically to the other person. 

[00:30:16] Kel: They're using their name. They're using the information they have either from work that's been done or from personal relationship with that person, what they've mentioned in terms of that qualitative research and the conversation, you're always just like, how do I cater this to this person? And I say, if you're trying to strengthen this relationship, the money will follow. Truly don't worry about the clothes or the money or any of that. I'm like, I'm truly trying to strengthen my relationship to this person.

[00:30:43] Kel: Cause you also don't know where they're going to lead you next. This person may not donate now, or they may not invest in you now, but they may in six months, like that might come back to you, or they may not have the resources, but they introduce you to somebody else or they have a social media following that they post. It's we're always just growing our own communities. So just trusting that this is going to be like a good positive experience for both of you. And if it really is about leading from a place that's relationship building, I do trust that the money will follow a hundred percent.

[00:31:18] Robyn: I agree. And I think one thing we have to emphasize here is that, if you don't ask the answers automatically, no, 

[00:31:25] Kel: A hundred percent. I say that all the time, 

[00:31:27] Robyn: Right? So if you are having anxiety around asking, if you're fearful of asking, I always have my clients and I cannot think, I think it's Brooke Castell came up with this model, but it's CTFAR.

[00:31:41] Robyn: If the circumstance, the situation is actually asking for funding. or seeking funding, if your thoughts around that are, Oh, nobody's ever going to say yes. I don't want to ask for that because they might think I'm weird or what if they judge me and think that I can't do this on my own. I have to have support.

[00:31:58] Robyn: If you're thinking all of these negative thoughts, your feelings are going to be those of fear, hesitation, doubt, lack of confidence, lack of trust. And the more you lack confidence, the more you lack trust in yourself. And the more you lack trust in yourself, the more other people are going to lack trust in you.

[00:32:16] Robyn: So you have to change those thoughts, right? Because otherwise you're not going to ask and you're not going to get results. Your business is not going to grow. You're not going to, whether you're a nonprofit for profit, no matter, you're not going to be able to make headway if you're not getting the resources that you need. And the only way to do that is to ask. 

[00:32:34] Robyn: So then you flip that model around to positive thoughts. Like I know what I'm talking about. I know this person. I am genuine. I know my business model is, great. I want to serve other people. You come from that place of heart centered service and confidence. Then what's going to happen? You're going to feel confident. You're going to trust yourself. You're going to be humbled by the experience. You're going to have all these positive emotions. 

[00:33:00] Robyn: So then you're going to ask, but you're going to ask in a way that is pleasant for the other person. You're going to get curious. You're going to take that action in a way that is going to work for everyone involved. And then the result's going to be, you're going to get funding. And like you said, that may not happen immediately. It may not happen overnight, but once you plant that seed and you get the ball rolling, one step of action is going to lead to more motivation, progress, and progress leads to momentum. So you're creating that cycle of positive results.

[00:33:34] Kel: Yeah, absolutely. I like to always say that I'm working from an abundance mentality, but when I feel like I'm not in flow with abundance, then I've got to recheck myself. I need to take a break. I need to go walk the dog. I need to say, did I drink enough water? Have I eaten enough? What is going on that's like leading me out from a place of abundance. 

[00:33:53] Kel: Cause it's fascinating. I have people say, I don't believe that person's going to fund me or donate to me because I know that they X, Y, and Z. But [00:34:00] the thing is that givers, donors give and investors and treat that as an, as like a positive of that person is already investing. If you know that person is already donating, they're actually going to be more likely to invest in or donate to you, which is amazing.

[00:34:16] Kel: And I also find that as you're growing your community, a lot of the clients I work with who are in the not for profit sector, I now have them in the habit of asking twice a year instead of once a year, and it's amazing how many people are now very willing to donate or invest twice a year, instead of once a year.

[00:34:34] Kel: But it's a way that like, we're continuing to develop that relationship. And so I don't worry about that as an, Oh gosh, we asked them six months ago, or I know that person is investing in these other things right now. So that means they have that many more connections. They've got that much more associations that you can be working with. So I always just try to live from a place of abundance and that there's more and we just have to find a way to tap into that. 

[00:35:02] Robyn: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. Kel. I loved this conversation. So thank you so much for being here. I just, I loved it. How can the listeners connect with you, learn more from you, maybe even hire you to help them map out their plan for funding.

[00:35:17] Kel: Yeah, happy to help if we're talking about, I know that predominantly the listening base is entrepreneurs. This is specifically about how to raise your own capital. You should reach out to me directly at kelhaney.com kel@kelhaney.com. I'm more than happy to do a 30 minute session complimentary with any of your listeners.

[00:35:35] Kel: I, again, I'm just excited to connect and communicate. If, anybody is working with a not for profit then I work with, like I mentioned, donorly it's donorly. com is where you want to go. And I've got a great group of colleagues there and we all work together. And again, I'm sure we can do a 30 minute complimentary consultation. I'm happy to be part of that with some of the other experts in terms of the not for profit sector with donorly. 

[00:35:59] Robyn: I love that so much. And what about, are you on social media? Can people follow you any specific place? Are you one place over another? Yeah, sure. I'm all the places I'm as just a couple of years into starting this in terms of my branding.

[00:36:13] Kel: I definitely have some work to do, but I've got all of the socials, Haney, Twitter, Instagram. I even have a Tik TOK, haven't done it yet, but I do lurk, whatever they call a Tiktok lurker. I do that on Facebook as well, obviously on LinkedIn as well. So all of those, it's just my name, KEL HANEY. Yeah.

[00:36:33] Robyn: And it's one L or two L's 

[00:36:35] Kel: one L 

[00:36:35] Robyn: one L. Okay. Awesome. So this is great. I will put all of those links in the show notes for everybody as well as your email for that call. Cause you sent that to me, so I will include that in the show notes. So listeners don't hesitate to hop over to the show notes. There's always great information in the show notes.

[00:36:52] Robyn: I try to capture our conversations to the best of my ability and I always include links so that it makes it so easy for you to connect with any of the guests that I have on the show. 

[00:37:01] Robyn: So if you found this information helpful, please share it. I know that there are so many people out there who have concerns about money or are fearful or something's holding them back because of some experience in their past.

[00:37:15] Robyn: And trust me when I say I know how many mindset is transferred from one generation to the other because I've experienced it. So it's time that we address those things. And now that we have a method to doing this and we can think more positively about it, it's time we start taking action. So if you have any questions, reach out to Kel, reach out to me, but that's it for today. And I will see you next time.